Leadership Notes

An interview with Marie Carstens, MS, ADTR,
Director of Psychiatric Rehabilitation, Interfaith Medical Center

by Joan S. Ingalls

Marie moves fluidly across the rehearsal-room space a large piece of sheer hemp billowing, and twisting around her as she choreographs a “fabric dance” with her partner. Marie loves Duncan technique, and she has a relationship with that fabric. I am seeing a new side of Marie.

I first met Marie when I went to Interfaith Medical Center for a job interview. As Director of Psychiatric Rehabilitation, she was hiring a dance therapist. Even as I scheduled the appointment with her, I was curious about how she, a dance therapist, became Director of Psychiatric Rehabilitation. Am I underestimating what dance therapists are doing now, or is this a noteworthy achievement that we should recognize?  I think the latter, and who Marie is as a dancer informs our understanding of how she has achieved so much.

Marie says, “Isadora Duncan was a rebel. She wanted to celebrate her body; she wanted dance to be expressive. This was very new in her day. Duncan is a real technique. There are motifs. The motifs can be connected, but if it is done in a superficial way, if the string of motifs does not express a thought or a feeling or an image – mostly an image, for me -- it doesn't work for me. I like image work; an image comes out of a feeling.”

So, what are the images, the motifs that Marie connects in a meaningful expressive way as she develops professionally? Marie always enjoyed dance, but as a dance major at University of Missouri - Kansas City, dance became a more complex experience. She sustained a series of injuries; she saw herself and others struggle with dieting. Before she graduated, she did an independent study in dance therapy, and from a feeling of disenchantment with the culture of performed dance came the image of dance as a celebration of the body and our lives, what she had always loved about dance, something anyone could do. 

“Upon graduating from Hunter eight years ago,” Marie says, “What did I know after two years in school? I thought ‘I'll just get out there and do it.'

“I got lucky with the timing of job openings. I took a job on the acute psychiatry unit at Interfaith to cover part-time for a person who was away. Within 4 months, I was full-time on two units with 60 patients. That was lucky and scary. I stayed in supervision with Marsha Perlmutter-Kalina, and Nana Koch. That helped. I have always sought supervision whenever possible with someone outside my job.

“It wasn't long before I was recruited to Acute Unit that specialized in MICA (Mental Illness and Chemical Addiction). I got along with the psychologists there. It was a team that liked to process. I wanted to be on that team.

“I got competitive. I thought psychologist shouldn't be the only ones to run the community meeting. I wasn't afraid to say, ‘I studied group process. You want to talk about group process? I can talk about group process.' I wasn't afraid to say what I knew. My goal was to communicate effectively with psychologists.

“After one year, I applied for a transfer to the 28-day voluntary rehabilitation Unit. I was now realizing that with a working knowledge of many units, I could make myself eligible for an administrative position. I had seniority so I got the transfer. I co-lead groups with an art therapist. I did good work, and documentation. I had a lot of energy. I was not shy about doing grand rounds. I talked, and showed slides. I had interns, and did outreach within the department to foster relationships. When the opportunity came to be Director of Psychiatric Rehabilitation, I took it.

“As an administrator, I see dance is a relational activity, and there is always a dialogue. One of my goals is to be heard by my ‘audience'. When I am trying to get across an idea I try to frame my statements accordingly -- for patients, staff, or administration -- the way I present material is different depending on whom I am speaking with. It is the same thing as performing, and ‘knowing one's audience.' What I offer depends on the individual I am talking to. I point out the body shape, or the movement characteristics, and ask, ‘What about that?' In that context, I can offer how I see it. I am asking myself, ‘What's the bridge to what the person is talking about?' I am bringing another tool, another way of looking at the client. There is always a performance, always an audience. I am always trying to know, and reach my audience with my performance.”

I see a motif: colleagues-and-patients-as-audience for her performance. What's her vision for the future? Marie smiles, “I want to create a wellness program for the staff at the hospital. They need stress management and relaxation. They need to be more playful.”

No doubt she will reach her audience with this performance. Good luck, Marie!